Slow, frustrating start with custom template design

[Suzanne Stephens]

I'm suffering some frustration getting started with custom template design
and would appreciate some pointers. I apologize for the length of this
message, but it took me a long time to get this muddled and confused, so
it's hard to relate my issues in a brief post.

I have a prototype of my basic page design done in HTML. Ken Lanxner, whom I
know from the Dreamweaver list, suggested using custom template instead of
Smart Html tags, and I can see the logic behind his suggestion, but I can't
seem to get started successfully. Here's my prototype:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS.shtml

Though hard to tell after the HTML is parsed, the top dropdown menu is a
separate page brought in using an ssi. The URL for the dropdown menu is:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/menu2.html

The buttons in the left column are another ssi:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/left_menu.html

Besides the menu ssi's, there are external .js and .css pages.

Since I'll have a number of different templates for different product
categories, as well as 'more info' pages, I'd prefer to continue using ssi's
for the menus to make editing easier. (However, I could -- though
reluctantly -- convert them to Dreamweaver Library Items, then do global
LIbrary Item edits on my desktop and re-upload all the templates each time
there is a change.)

As far as making this design work in Shopsite as a template, I need to
figure out how to "tag" all the URLs that'll go in the dropdown menu and
left column menu, and how to configure the product area containing just two
or three 3 cell table rows.

OK, I just couldn't wrap my brain around much of anything I found in the
ShopSite support info, so I figured it might help to start by building
simple one element templates, adding on until I figured out what I was
doing.

Since I'll need includes, I tried pasting in a set of 'define page' tags and
adding an include for my stylesheet. After i uploaded the template and
stylesheet and tried to publish them, I got an error message, something
about expecting 7 parameters and finding 2. I never could figure out what
that error message meant or how to fix it.

Next, I tried copying a ShopSite template and trying to link it to my .css
page. No luck there either, as my css styles printed at the top of my page
in the browser:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

Here's my modified ss template:

This morning, it occurred to me that I may have erred in adding .html to my
template name, but I have yet to test that theory.


I had better luck modifying an SS template, however I was unable to get it
to recognize my css styles:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

By the way, throughout this process, I was continually stymied by errors
displaying ShopSite help pages and and using SS store cgi functions in
Safari v1.2.2. I hope that once I finally get the store running, Mac users
browsing with Safari will be able to use it.

Here's an example of a page that doesn't display in Safari:
http://www.shopsite.com/help/7.0/en-US/ ... mplate.txt

I also got an error trying to upload templates through Safari.

The Als Tools template explanation might have been somewhat helpful, but
since it doesn't use CSS, it didn't help with my stylesheet include problem.
Do you have a similar example that uses CSS for text styling and --
hopefully -- for some page layout elements?

That's as far as I got last night. I'd really appreciate any suggestions you
can give me for streamlining this learning process and applying it to my
prototype design.

thanks, Suzanne

[Suzanne Stephens]

In my previous post, I forgot that I had left out a URL towards the bottom
of the page. I never could figure out the path to this template whereever
the SS cgi uploaded it.

Here's my modified ss template:

By the way, you wouldn't believe how long it took me to figure out that
templates were uploaded via the Merchandising area. It seems totally
non-intuitive. With my background of some 9 years in retail department store
advertising design, I think of "merchandising" as being 100% related to
products and functions handled by retail store buyers: buying merchandise,
designating merchandise to go in print ads, setting prices and sale prices,
etc. Since templates relate to page layouts it seems like the template
upload area should be in the "page" area. In a brick 'n mortar store such as
the large department store chains for which I worked, the merchandisers
would never have any control over page design and layout.

Also, the learning process would have been less frustrating for me if the
page links in your Shopsite User Guide pdf file were hot-linked and if the
table of contents gave the correct page numbers (such as 67 instead of 66
for custom pages) and were actually linked to the pages. It would also be
very helpful if someone could consolidate all your tutorial and help files
into one integrated document, preferable in either pdf or Web page format,
but not spread out among both. I find it very hard to find stuff or -- later
-- to remember where I saw info.


Suzannd

[Jim]

All the help for ShopSite is in one location on the web at
ShopSite.com/help. Every screen in the back office has a red icon with
a ? on it that will take you to the help specific to that particular
page. -


Suzanne Stephens wrote:

In my previous post, I forgot that I had left out a URL towards the bottom
of the page. I never could figure out the path to this template whereever
the SS cgi uploaded it.


Here's my modified ss template:


By the way, you wouldn't believe how long it took me to figure out that
templates were uploaded via the Merchandising area. It seems totally
non-intuitive. With my background of some 9 years in retail department store
advertising design, I think of "merchandising" as being 100% related to
products and functions handled by retail store buyers: buying merchandise,
designating merchandise to go in print ads, setting prices and sale prices,
etc. Since templates relate to page layouts it seems like the template
upload area should be in the "page" area. In a brick 'n mortar store such as
the large department store chains for which I worked, the merchandisers
would never have any control over page design and layout.

Also, the learning process would have been less frustrating for me if the
page links in your Shopsite User Guide pdf file were hot-linked and if the
table of contents gave the correct page numbers (such as 67 instead of 66
for custom pages) and were actually linked to the pages. It would also be
very helpful if someone could consolidate all your tutorial and help files
into one integrated document, preferable in either pdf or Web page format,
but not spread out among both. I find it very hard to find stuff or -- later
-- to remember where I saw info.


Suzannd

[Jim]

Sorry if this answer seemed short. I got some stuff in my keyboard and
turned it upside down and tapped it on my desk and I guess I hit the
right key sequence to send the message. I am posting more answers in
reply to your other message.

Jim wrote:

All the help for ShopSite is in one location on the web at
ShopSite.com/help. Every screen in the back office has a red icon with
a ? on it that will take you to the help specific to that particular
page. -


Suzanne Stephens wrote:

In my previous post, I forgot that I had left out a URL towards the
bottom
of the page. I never could figure out the path to this template whereever
the SS cgi uploaded it.


Here's my modified ss template:



By the way, you wouldn't believe how long it took me to figure out that
templates were uploaded via the Merchandising area. It seems totally
non-intuitive. With my background of some 9 years in retail department
store
advertising design, I think of "merchandising" as being 100% related to
products and functions handled by retail store buyers: buying
merchandise,
designating merchandise to go in print ads, setting prices and sale
prices,
etc. Since templates relate to page layouts it seems like the template
upload area should be in the "page" area. In a brick 'n mortar store
such as
the large department store chains for which I worked, the merchandisers
would never have any control over page design and layout.

Also, the learning process would have been less frustrating for me if the
page links in your Shopsite User Guide pdf file were hot-linked and if
the
table of contents gave the correct page numbers (such as 67 instead of 66
for custom pages) and were actually linked to the pages. It would also be
very helpful if someone could consolidate all your tutorial and help
files
into one integrated document, preferable in either pdf or Web page
format,
but not spread out among both. I find it very hard to find stuff or --
later
-- to remember where I saw info.


Suzannd

[Jim]

Suzanne,

Although custom template are not simple to do they are not too
complicated if you break them into the various components.

A page consists of various section as you mentioned below, a section for
a header, links, products, text etc. Each of those types of areas have
ShopSite field assigned for data. As you see when you create a page you
have text fields, links, page name, graphic, layout information etc that
relate to that particular page. In the ShopSite template language there
is a tag associated with each of those data elements and they take the
format [-- PAGE.<fieldname> --] where <fieldname> represents one of the
particular fields. There are similar tags for all product database
fields. There are also some special tags for including other files [--
INCLUDE <filename> --], creating IF statments etc. And there are tags
that delimit the sections of the template such as [-- DEFINE PAGE --]
[-- END_DEFINE PAGE --].

To convert your html page to a template start by putting the [-- DEFINE
PAGE --] and [-- END_DEFINE PAGE --] at the top and bottom of the page
respectively, outside of the the <html> </html> tags.

Once you have put the Define tags around the page you can use the page
as a template in ShopSite and it will publish but until you have other
tags in it it won't change based on the data assigned to a page using
the template.

To include a style sheet or java script code upload the file into the
include folder using the Merchandizing > Custom Templates > Upload
Include button. and then put the tag [-- Include <filename> --] where
you want the style sheet or java script information on your page.

For ssi or js files you could just put in the html to load that include
or .js file and not use the [-- include - --] syntax.

Next in the section where you want the links put the tag
[-- Loop Links --] before the link area that you currently have defined

[-- End_Loop Links --] after the link area that you currentl have defined.

The links that you currently have defined will display between those two
tags. To replace those links with ShopSite generated links just remove
your hard coded links and insert the tag [-- Link --]

where you want a field such as text put the tag for that field for
example [-- Page.text1 --]

Where the products go do as outlined above for the Link section only
using these tags.
[-- Loop Products --]
[-- Product --]
[-- End_loop Products --]


Taking things a step at a time you should gradually be able to remove
your hard coded html content and replace it with the appropriate
ShopSite tag.

A product template works the same way as a page template using product
database fields and the format [-- PRODUCT.<fieldname> --]. It deals
with how each product displays within the section of the page template
where products are displayed.

The error about expecting X parameters and only found Y is usually
caused by missing either the [-- or the --] part of a tag.


Sorry about the help files that won't work on the Mac Safari browser. I
have notified our doc person to have him look into the issue. If you
have another browser I would use that instead of Safari. I know
MicroSoft isn't doing IE for the Mac any more and there are problems
with the last version they had. I would try the Mozilla browser which
is available for Mac OS X at http://mozilla.org/. I use it all the time
on the PC and it has very few problems.

Jim


Suzanne Stephens wrote:

I'm suffering some frustration getting started with custom template design
and would appreciate some pointers. I apologize for the length of this
message, but it took me a long time to get this muddled and confused, so
it's hard to relate my issues in a brief post.

I have a prototype of my basic page design done in HTML. Ken Lanxner, whom I
know from the Dreamweaver list, suggested using custom template instead of
Smart Html tags, and I can see the logic behind his suggestion, but I can't
seem to get started successfully. Here's my prototype:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS.shtml

Though hard to tell after the HTML is parsed, the top dropdown menu is a
separate page brought in using an ssi. The URL for the dropdown menu is:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/menu2.html

The buttons in the left columnare another ssi:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/left_menu.html

Besides the menu ssi's, there are external .js and .css pages.

Since I'll have a number of different templates for different product
categories, as well as 'more info' pages, I'd prefer to continue using ssi's
for the menus to make editing easier. (However, I could -- though
reluctantly -- convert them to Dreamweaver Library Items, then do global
LIbrary Item edits on my desktop and re-upload all the templates each time
there is a change.)

As far as making this design work in Shopsite as a template, I need to
figure out how to "tag" all the URLs that'll go in the dropdown menu and
left column menu, and how to configure the product area containing just two
or three 3 cell table rows.

OK, I just couldn't wrap my brain around much of anything I found in the
ShopSite support info, so I figured it might help to start by building
simple one element templates, adding on until I figured out what I was
doing.

Since I'll need includes, I tried pasting in a set of 'define page' tags and
adding an include for my stylesheet. After i uploaded the template and
stylesheet and tried to publish them, I got an error message, something
about expecting 7 parameters and finding 2. I never could figure out what
that error message meant or how to fix it.

Next, I tried copying a ShopSite template and trying to link it to my .css
page. No luck there either, as my css styles printed at the top of my page
in the browser:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

Here's my modified ss template:

This morning, it occurred to me that I may have erred in adding .html to my
template name, but I have yet to test that theory.


I had better luck modifying an SS template, however I was unable to get it
to recognize my css styles:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

By the way, throughout this process, I was continually stymied by errors
displaying ShopSite help pages and and using SS store cgi functions in
Safari v1.2.2. I hope that once I finally get the store running, Mac users
browsing with Safari will be able to use it.

Here's an example of a page that doesn't display in Safari:
http://www.shopsite.com/help/7.0/en-US/ ... mplate.txt

I also got an error trying to upload templates through Safari.

The Als Tools template explanation might have been somewhat helpful, but
since it doesn't use CSS, it didn't help with my stylesheet include problem.
Do you have a similar example that uses CSS for text styling and --
hopefully -- for some page layout elements?

That's as far as I got last night. I'd really appreciate any suggestions you
can give me for streamlining this learning process and applying it to my
prototype design.

thanks, Suzanne

[Suzanne Stephens]

in article c9ndl8$ijl$1@support.shopsite.com, Jim at jstavast@xmission.com
wrote on 6/3/04 7:50 AM:

All the help for ShopSite is in one location on the web at
ShopSite.com/help.

Yes, it's there and it's a nightmare to navigate. For example, a search
turns up dozens of pages with references to custom template. And from each
of those there are usually numerous links to more relevant pages. Worst of
all, because the pages are in frames, none of these pages can be bookmarked.
I've finally resorted to making myself a list of all the pages so that I can
try to figure out how to drill down to each of them.

Also the left frame navigation system for the help pages is slow, clunky,
and too wide for the frame, the width of which can't be adjusted in IE/Mac.
I don't like IE, but am forced to use it because many pages in the help
system won't display in Safari, by far my preferred browser.

Most of the problems with the help files could o easily have been avoided by
dispensing with frames and using an ssi for the menu.


Every screen in the back office has a red icon with

a ? on it that will take you to the help specific to that particular
page. -


That's a problem when I'm trying to find help via the support links on the

ShopSite web site.

Suzanne

[Suzanne Stephens]

THanks for this explanation, Jim. I was beginning to think I was going to
have to use only Order Anywhere tags.

It sure would be helpful if someone like you would put a detailed
explanation similar to this somewhere in the help files. Step-by-step --
preferably without sublinks to other pages -- would be so helpful.

And to add to my previous rant about the help files: I've designed hundreds
of Web sites since I first began Web design in 1994.

One cardinal rule that has always been of vital importance is that Web sites
must be tested for compatibility with all the major browsers and that you
*don't* tell users not to use another browser. Now, I must admit that if I'm
designing a site that I know will be used primarily by IE/PC users and
rarely by Mac users, then I don't pull my hair out over little
discrepancies, but then they are rare because my primary design platform is
a Mac.

However, if I'm targeting pages toward people who are more likely to use
Macs -- a category that includes many graphic designers, especially long
time professional print designers like our group -- then Mac compatibility
if of utmost importance.

A second cardinal rule: frames SUCK. Big time!!! In all the hundreds of
sites I've designed, I've only used frames once, and I'm not too proud of
that site. It is incredibly easy nowadays to do intricate navigation system
that can be used as includes, especially when using Dreamweaver extensions
created by ProjectSeven.com (which I like because they are thoroughly and
constantly tested and upgraded in all browsers).

Suzanne




in article c9nh0r$is2$1@support.shopsite.com, Jim at jstavast@xmission.com
wrote on 6/3/04 8:47 AM:

Suzanne,

Although custom template are not simple to do they are not too
complicated if you break them into the various components.

A page consists of various section as you mentioned below, a section for
a header, links, products, text etc. Each of those types of areas have
ShopSite field assigned for data. As you see when you create a page you
have text fields, links, page name, graphic, layout information etc that
relate to that particular page. In the ShopSite template language there
is a tag associated with each of those data elements and they take the
format [-- PAGE.<fieldname> --] where <fieldname> represents one of the
particular fields. There are similar tags for all product database
fields. There are also some special tags for including other files [--
INCLUDE <filename> --], creating IF statments etc. And there are tags
that delimit the sections of the template such as [-- DEFINE PAGE --]
[-- END_DEFINE PAGE --].

To convert your html page to a template start by putting the [-- DEFINE
PAGE --] and [-- END_DEFINE PAGE --] at the top and bottom of the page
respectively, outside of the the <html> </html> tags.

Once you have put the Define tags around the page you can use the page
as a template in ShopSite and it will publish but until you have other
tags in it it won't change based on the data assigned to a page using
the template.

To include a style sheet or java script code upload the file into the
include folder using the Merchandizing > Custom Templates > Upload
Include button. and then put the tag [-- Include <filename> --] where
you want the style sheet or java script information on your page.

For ssi or js files you could just put in the html to load that include
or .js file and not use the [-- include - --] syntax.

Next in the section where you want the links put the tag
[-- Loop Links --] before the link area that you currently have defined

[-- End_Loop Links --] after the link area that you currentl have defined.

The links that you currently have defined will display between those two
tags. To replace those links with ShopSite generated links just remove
your hard coded links and insert the tag [-- Link --]

where you want a field such as text put the tag for that field for
example [-- Page.text1 --]

Where the products go do as outlined above for the Link section only
using these tags.
[-- Loop Products --]
[-- Product --]
[-- End_loop Products --]


Taking things a step at a time you should gradually be able to remove
your hard coded html content and replace it with the appropriate
ShopSite tag.

A product template works the same way as a page template using product
database fields and the format [-- PRODUCT.<fieldname> --]. It deals
with how each product displays within the section of the page template
where products are displayed.

The error about expecting X parameters and only found Y is usually
caused by missing either the [-- or the --] part of a tag.


Sorry about the help files that won't work on the Mac Safari browser. I
have notified our doc person to have him look into the issue. If you
have another browser I would use that instead of Safari. I know
MicroSoft isn't doing IE for the Mac any more and there are problems
with the last version they had. I would try the Mozilla browser which
is available for Mac OS X at http://mozilla.org/. I use it all the time
on the PC and it has very few problems.

Jim


Suzanne Stephens wrote:

I'm suffering some frustration getting started with custom template design
and would appreciate some pointers. I apologize for the length of this
message, but it took me a long time to get this muddled and confused, so
it's hard to relate my issues in a brief post.

I have a prototype of my basic page design done in HTML. Ken Lanxner, whom I
know from the Dreamweaver list, suggested using custom template instead of
Smart Html tags, and I can see the logic behind his suggestion, but I can't
seem to get started successfully. Here's my prototype:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS.shtml

Though hard to tell after the HTML is parsed, the top dropdown menu is a
separate page brought in using an ssi. The URL for the dropdown menu is:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/menu2.html

The buttons in the left columnare another ssi:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/left_menu.html

Besides the menu ssi's, there are external .js and .css pages.

Since I'll have a number of different templates for different product
categories, as well as 'more info' pages, I'd prefer to continue using ssi's
for the menus to make editing easier. (However, I could -- though
reluctantly -- convert them to Dreamweaver Library Items, then do global
LIbrary Item edits on my desktop and re-upload all the templates each time
there is a change.)

As far as making this design work in Shopsite as a template, I need to
figure out how to "tag" all the URLs that'll go in the dropdown menu and
left column menu, and how to configure the product area containing just two
or three 3 cell table rows.

OK, I just couldn't wrap my brain around much of anything I found in the
ShopSite support info, so I figured it might help to start by building
simple one element templates, adding on until I figured out what I was
doing.

Since I'll need includes, I tried pasting in a set of 'define page' tags and
adding an include for my stylesheet. After i uploaded the template and
stylesheet and tried to publish them, I got an error message, something
about expecting 7 parameters and finding 2. I never could figure out what
that error message meant or how to fix it.

Next, I tried copying a ShopSite template and trying to link it to my .css
page. No luck there either, as my css styles printed at the top of my page
in the browser:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

Here's my modified ss template:

This morning, it occurred to me that I may have erred in adding .html to my
template name, but I have yet to test that theory.


I had better luck modifying an SS template, however I was unable to get it
to recognize my css styles:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

By the way, throughout this process, I was continually stymied by errors
displaying ShopSite help pages and and using SS store cgi functions in
Safari v1.2.2. I hope that once I finally get the store running, Mac users
browsing with Safari will be able to use it.

Here's an example of a page that doesn't display in Safari:
http://www.shopsite.com/help/7.0/en-US/ ... mplate.txt

I also got an error trying to upload templates through Safari.

The Als Tools template explanation might have been somewhat helpful, but
since it doesn't use CSS, it didn't help with my stylesheet include problem.
Do you have a similar example that uses CSS for text styling and --
hopefully -- for some page layout elements?

That's as far as I got last night. I'd really appreciate any suggestions you
can give me for streamlining this learning process and applying it to my
prototype design.

thanks, Suzanne

[Jim]

In Safari you can copy a link by holding down the Control key while
clicking on the link. You are then given a couple of options including
making a bookmark of the link or copying it to the clipboard.

The help for custom pages has recently under gone some changes and
includes samples showing snippets of template code and how the resulting
html page looks. You an get to the main links to that section at:
http://www.shopsite.com/help/7.0/en-US/ ... lates.html
and click on the links for Page Templates, Product template etc and
then review section 2 titled "Study the Examples"

I agree with you about the frames issue. We are looking at other ways
to display the help so if you have any suggested tools let us know.

Jim

[Brandon Eley]

We have been using custom page and product templates for years and have
successfully integrated them with PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, SSI, and just
about any other technology. We've eve hacked the templates (with
ShopSite's help) to display a really cool dropdown to show sub-products
and inventory levels.

I would be happy to help you get your pages up and running... You will
need two custom templates - one page template for the overall design and
a product template that will have the product layout and the more info
page layout.

If you need some help, you can email me (address below), give me a call
at 706-883-7078 or on my cell at 706-668-0174. I'd be happy to give you
some advice or even write all your pages for you (for a small fee).

You can see our site below...

Brandon Eley
2BigFeet.com
brandon@2bigfeet.com
www.2bigfeet.com


Suzanne Stephens wrote:

I'm suffering some frustration getting started with custom template design
and would appreciate some pointers. I apologize for the length of this
message, but it took me a long time to get this muddled and confused, so
it's hard to relate my issues in a brief post.

I have a prototype of my basic page design done in HTML. Ken Lanxner, whom I
know from the Dreamweaver list, suggested using custom template instead of
Smart Html tags, and I can see the logic behind his suggestion, but I can't
seem to get started successfully. Here's my prototype:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS.shtml

Though hard to tell after the HTML is parsed, the top dropdown menu is a
separate page brought in using an ssi. The URL for the dropdown menu is:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/menu2.html

The buttons in the left column are another ssi:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/left_menu.html

Besides the menu ssi's, there are external .js and .css pages.

Since I'll have a number of different templates for different product
categories, as well as 'more info' pages, I'd prefer to continue using ssi's
for the menus to make editing easier. (However, I could -- though
reluctantly -- convert them to Dreamweaver Library Items, then do global
LIbrary Item edits on my desktop and re-upload all the templates each time
there is a change.)

As far as making this design work in Shopsite as a template, I need to
figure out how to "tag" all the URLs that'll go in the dropdown menu and
left column menu, and how to configure the product area containing just two
or three 3 cell table rows.

OK, I just couldn't wrap my brain around much of anything I found in the
ShopSite support info, so I figured it might help to start by building
simple one element templates, adding on until I figured out what I was
doing.

Since I'll need includes, I tried pasting in a set of 'define page' tags and
adding an include for my stylesheet. After i uploaded the template and
stylesheet and tried to publish them, I got an error message, something
about expecting 7 parameters and finding 2. I never could figure out what
that error message meant or how to fix it.

Next, I tried copying a ShopSite template and trying to link it to my .css
page. No luck there either, as my css styles printed at the top of my page
in the browser:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

Here's my modified ss template:

This morning, it occurred to me that I may have erred in adding .html to my
template name, but I have yet to test that theory.


I had better luck modifying an SS template, however I was unable to get it
to recognize my css styles:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

By the way, throughout this process, I was continually stymied by errors
displaying ShopSite help pages and and using SS store cgi functions in
Safari v1.2.2. I hope that once I finally get the store running, Mac users
browsing with Safari will be able to use it.

Here's an example of a page that doesn't display in Safari:
http://www.shopsite.com/help/7.0/en-US/ ... mplate.txt

I also got an error trying to upload templates through Safari.

The Als Tools template explanation might have been somewhat helpful, but
since it doesn't use CSS, it didn't help with my stylesheet include problem.
Do you have a similar example that uses CSS for text styling and --
hopefully -- for some page layout elements?

That's as far as I got last night. I'd really appreciate any suggestions you
can give me for streamlining this learning process and applying it to my
prototype design.

thanks, Suzanne

[Suzanne Stephens]

Thanks for your offer of help, Brandon.

With lots of help from Jim off-list, I was able to get a basic template page
going. Then I got stuck on the product template, which sent me off exploring
sites by the designers listed on the Shopsite site.

Doing so caused me to reverse directions, deciding that custom pages would
be perfectly adequate for what I'm doing. One site is my own, for which I
can build custom pages all day long. The other is a client site, for which
I'll likely end up doing most of the updates, so again, hard coded custom
pages should work just fine.

Exploring Shopsite designers' sites, I found several by "Why Struggle" that
are very similar to what I need and to my usual approach to page design and
layout. But again, I'm finding the documentation on Shopsite.com inadequate
to get me from point A to point Z. Hopefully you or someone else who's
reading this can help me. (I'd love to be able to pay for your help, but my
projects are both unpaid, for myself and for my son's employer's company)

Here are two Why Struggle pages that achieve the nearly the end results I'm
after:

1) a page with thumbnail listing of various products, with product pic and
text stacked vertically in table cells:

http://www.-.com/catalog/bakeware.shtml

2) a detail page for one of the products:
http://www.-.com/catalog/BDTC-696968.shtml

The only thing these two pages aren't currently displaying that I'd like to
have as an option are:

-- sale prices, when applicable, in addition to regular prices

-- "Sold" when a one-of-a-kind item or the last or near to last item in
stock has been sold.

I'll also have a JS popup window to show a larger photo than that on the
detail page, but I assume that can all be handled as hard-coded pages with
no linkup to the SS database.

Where someone can help me is to either send me one of your html pages or
point me to one in the SS help files so that I can see exactly *what* smart
tags go *where* in a page similar to the - Shop pages listed above.

And a few specific questions:

-- SS's help files Smart Tag specifications list:

<curdb="products">
<curdb="pages">

Where exactly within an html page do these tags go? And I"m a little vague
on the purpose of pointing to the "pages" db if I'm using all handcoded
custom pages.


Does the record name <recname="record_name"> tag simply require the name of
the product as it's listed in the SS db, such as Blue Widgets or Red
Widgets? If not, where do I get the record name? Ditto for
<currec="record_number">: is that the SKU number? What if I don't have SKU
numbers -- use just th ename?

Images: is there any need to add them to the SS database, or just upload
them to their usual location(s) on my site's directory?

Another way to ask these questions would be to show you my site prototype
designs:


An unfinished category page similar to the - Shop bakeware page listed
above:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS_template.shtml

For this page, I need to know the tags to add for:

-- Photo (if, for some reason I need to handle the photo as part of the SS
db)

--Product name (ie, Favities 1, or taxonomic species name plus a stock
number)

-- First descriptive text (would be common name)
-- Regular Price
-- Sale price, if on sale
-- Sold, if sold
-- Order
-- Mini cart
-- opt-in email


A detail page (which, I suppose, would be the equivalent of a "more info"
page):

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS_brain1.shtml

--Photo (if, for some reason I need to handle the photo as part of the SS
db)
--First descriptive text (would be common name)
--Second section of descriptive text
--Third section of descriptive
--Regular Price
--Sale price, if on sale
--Sold (if sold)
--Order
--Mini cart
--opt-in email


in article c9pskj$ou$1@support.shopsite.com, Brandon Eley at
brandon@2bigfeet.com wrote on 6/4/04 6:14 AM:

We have been using custom page and product templates for years and have
successfully integrated them with PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, SSI, and just
about any other technology. We've eve hacked the templates (with
ShopSite's help) to display a really cool dropdown to show sub-products
and inventory levels.

I would be happy to help you get your pages up and running... You will
need two custom templates - one page template for the overall design and
a product template that will have the product layout and the more info
page layout.

If you need some help, you can email me (address below), give me a call
at 706-883-7078 or on my cell at 706-668-0174. I'd be happy to give you
some advice or even write all your pages for you (for a small fee).

You can see our site below...

Brandon Eley
2BigFeet.com
brandon@2bigfeet.com
www.2bigfeet.com


Suzanne Stephens wrote:
I'm suffering some frustration getting started with custom template design
and would appreciate some pointers. I apologize for the length of this
message, but it took me a long time to get this muddled and confused, so
it's hard to relate my issues in a brief post.

I have a prototype of my basic page design done in HTML. Ken Lanxner, whom I
know from the Dreamweaver list, suggested using custom template instead of
Smart Html tags, and I can see the logic behind his suggestion, but I can't
seem to get started successfully. Here's my prototype:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS.shtml

Though hard to tell after the HTML is parsed, the top dropdown menu is a
separate page brought in using an ssi. The URL for the dropdown menu is:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/menu2.html

The buttons in the left column are another ssi:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/left_menu.html

Besides the menu ssi's, there are external .js and .css pages.

Since I'll have a number of different templates for different product
categories, as well as 'more info' pages, I'd prefer to continue using ssi's
for the menus to make editing easier. (However, I could -- though
reluctantly -- convert them to Dreamweaver Library Items, then do global
LIbrary Item edits on my desktop and re-upload all the templates each time
there is a change.)

As far as making this design work in Shopsite as a template, I need to
figure out how to "tag" all the URLs that'll go in the dropdown menu and
left column menu, and how to configure the product area containing just two
or three 3 cell table rows.

OK, I just couldn't wrap my brain around much of anything I found in the
ShopSite support info, so I figured it might help to start by building
simple one element templates, adding on until I figured out what I was
doing.

Since I'll need includes, I tried pasting in a set of 'define page' tags and
adding an include for my stylesheet. After i uploaded the template and
stylesheet and tried to publish them, I got an error message, something
about expecting 7 parameters and finding 2. I never could figure out what
that error message meant or how to fix it.

Next, I tried copying a ShopSite template and trying to link it to my .css
page. No luck there either, as my css styles printed at the top of my page
in the browser:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

Here's my modified ss template:

This morning, it occurred to me that I may have erred in adding .html to my
template name, but I have yet to test that theory.


I had better luck modifying an SS template, however I was unable to get it
to recognize my css styles:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/page1.html

By the way, throughout this process, I was continually stymied by errors
displaying ShopSite help pages and and using SS store cgi functions in
Safari v1.2.2. I hope that once I finally get the store running, Mac users
browsing with Safari will be able to use it.

Here's an example of a page that doesn't display in Safari:
http://www.shopsite.com/help/7.0/en-US/ ... mplate.txt

I also got an error trying to upload templates through Safari.

The Als Tools template explanation might have been somewhat helpful, but
since it doesn't use CSS, it didn't help with my stylesheet include problem.
Do you have a similar example that uses CSS for text styling and --
hopefully -- for some page layout elements?

That's as far as I got last night. I'd really appreciate any suggestions you
can give me for streamlining this learning process and applying it to my
prototype design.

thanks, Suzanne

[Suzanne Stephens]

Just a note to thank everyone who has helped me. I feel guilty asking for
help, at least until I think about the thousands of questions I've answered
on the Dreamweaver and WiseWomen Web design lists over the past 8-9 years!

Suzanne

[Jim]

Suzanne,
Are you considering "Custom Pages" or custom templates? They are
different things and work entirely different.

With "Custom Pages" you create all the html for each and every page and
product and use tags like
<curdb="products">, <curdb="pages">, <recname="record_name">
to insert just the information for those fields into you Custom Page.
(Only a limited database fields are available using the Custom Pages
feature.) At generate time the associated values are pulled from the
appropriate database and stuffed into your page. There is no ability to
make changes like including the sale price if it is turned on or display
an Sold image if there are none left in inventory. Custom Page tags are
not being upgraded when new functionality is added to ShopSite so you
will not be able to use features such as Quantity Pricing, Variable
Pricing etc.

With custom templates you create a single page or product template and
assign that to pages or products. At generate time ShopSite pulls all
the data for a product or page and creates each page of the store. Tags
look like [-- product.price --], [-- page.name --] etc. Almost all
database fields for pages and products as well as additional store wide
fields are available to be used in custom templates making it much more
flexible than "Custom Pages".

In general a person is better off using the custom page and product
templates than "Custom Pages".


To answer your questions about Custom Pages Smart Tags
<recname="record_name"> record_name is the actual product name
<currec="record_number"> record_number is the database record number of
the item and not the SKU value. There is no tag that will use the SKU
of the product.


Jim





Suzanne Stephens wrote:

Thanks for your offer of help, Brandon.

With lots of help from Jim off-list, I was able to get a basic template page
going. Then I got stuck on the product template, which sent me off exploring
sites by the designers listed on the Shopsite site.

Doing so caused me to reverse directions, deciding that custom pages would
be perfectly adequate for what I'm doing. One site is my own, for which I
can build custom pages all day long. The other is a client site, for which
I'll likely end up doing most of the updates, so again, hard coded custom
pages should work just fine.

Exploring Shopsite designers' sites, I found several by "Why Struggle" that
are very similar to what I need and to my usual approach to page design and
layout. But again, I'm finding the documentation on Shopsite.com inadequate
to get me from point A to point Z. Hopefully you or someone else who's
reading this can help me. (I'd love to be able to pay for your help, but my
projects are both unpaid, for myself and for my son's employer's company)

Here are two Why Struggle pages that achieve the nearly the end results I'm
after:

1) a page with thumbnail listing of various products, with product pic and
text stacked vertically in table cells:

http://www.-.com/catalog/bakeware.shtml

2) a detail page for one of the products:
http://www.-.com/catalog/BDTC-696968.shtml

The only thing these two pages aren't currently displaying that I'd like to
have as an option are:

-- sale prices, when applicable, in addition to regular prices

-- "Sold" when a one-of-a-kind item or the last or near to last item in
stock has been sold.

I'll also have a JS popup window to show a larger photo than that on the
detail page, but I assume that can all be handled as hard-coded pages with
no linkup to the SS database.

Where someone can help me is to either send me one of your html pages or
point me to one in the SS help files so that I can see exactly *what* smart
tags go *where* in a page similar to the - Shop pages listed above.

And a few specific questions:

-- SS's help files Smart Tag specifications list:

curdb="products"
curdb="pages"

Where exactly within an html page do these tags go? And I"m a little vague
on the purpose of pointing to the "pages" db if I'm using all handcoded
custom pages.


Does the record name <recname="record_name"> tag simply require the name of
the product as it's listed in the SS db, such as Blue Widgets or Red
Widgets? If not, where do I get the record name? Ditto for
currec="record_number">: is that the SKU number? What if I don't have SKU
numbers -- use just th ename?

Images: is there any need to add them to the SS database, or just upload
them to their usual location(s) on my site's directory?

Another way to ask these questions would be to show you my site prototype
designs:


An unfinished category page similar to the - Shop bakeware page listed
above:

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS_template.shtml

For this page, I need to know the tags to add for:

-- Photo (if, for some reason I need to handle the photo as part of the SS
db)

--Product name (ie, Favities 1, or taxonomic species name plus a stock
number)

-- First descriptive text (would be common name)
-- Regular Price
-- Sale price, if on sale
-- Sold, if sold
-- Order
-- Mini cart
-- opt-in email


A detail page (which, I suppose, would be the equivalent of a "more info"
page):

http://www.culturedaquaria.com/LPS_brain1.shtml

--Photo (if, for some reason I need to handle the photo as part of the SS
db)
--First descriptive text (would be common name)
--Second section of descriptive text
--Third section of descriptive
--Regular Price
--Sale price, if on sale
--Sold (if sold)
--Order
--Mini cart
--opt-in email